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            When noted out-of-body teacher and practitioner Jerry Gross wants to travel long distances, he doesn't bother with the time and expense of catching a plane.  He just uses a different kind of plane, and travels there astrally.--Unless, of course, he is teaching one of his many classes and workshops on astral projection, also known as OOBE or out-of-body experience.

According to Gross, the ability to leave the body has been with him since childhood.  Yet, rather than regarding this as a special gift, he believes that this is an inherent ability that can be developed by anyone.  In the following article, Gross discusses the out-of-body experience with freelance writer and former workshop participant Sandy Jones.

Jones:  What is astral projection?  How would you describe it?

Gross:  Astral projection is the ability to leave your body.  Everyone leaves their body at night, but before they do leave, they have to put the physical mind to sleep.  Most people don't remember this, but when the physical mind is asleep, the subconscious takes over, and this is usually when you do your astral projection.  In other words, everybody does it, but they just don't remember doing it.

Jones:  What is your earliest recollection of doing this?  What was it like?

Gross:  I can remember doing this clear back to when I was about four years old.  I never lost the ability to astral project, and kept it throughout my whole life now.  Everyone is born with this ability.  If you think back, you can probably recall having dreams of being somewhere: but as you got older, you lost the ability.  What I'm trying to teach is that you can do this at will.

Jones:  In those days, astral projection was almost unheard of.  Did you ever tell anyone about it?  How did they react?

Gross:  It was strange for me because at that age, I thought everybody did it.  I used to talk about it, until it kind of got out of hand, and when I started getting into trouble with it, I went to my Grandmother, who could do it too.  She told me not everyone could do it, so it would be best not to talk about it, and to come to here if I wanted to talk about it.  So throughout all my life, most of my experiences with astral projection were kept a secret, except for her.

Jones:  These days, with the many publications on near-death experience and related topics, the concept is not so unusual.  Is this experience the same as what is described in the near-death experiences?

Gross:  It's not quite the same, because when you astral project, you don't have to go through the white light, or a tunnel.  When you project, you usually go right where you would like to go, right away.  Remember this, when you're out of the body,  there is no time or no distance.  Everything is right here, now.  Astral projecting is a little different than the death experience, because in the death experience, you are getting ready to leave the body for the last time.  During the death experience, a person sees the white light, and there is usually someone there that you know, waiting for you.  When you astral project, you decide where you want to go.

Jones:  When you leave your body, what happens to the physical body?

Gross:  When your physical body sleeps and the astral body leaves, the physical body just rests.  No harm can come to you through this.

Jones:  What do you do when you leave the body?

Gross:  I go to the astral plane and communicate with my teachers,  I visit other places and other dimensions,  and I visit my loved ones who have left the earth plane.  There are many things you can do once you develop this skill.

Jones:  It has been said that there is a silver cord attached to the body, and that this cord could be severed when you astrally project, thereby making it impossible to come back to your body.  Is there a danger of this happening?

Gross:  Absolutely not.  The silver cord is connected to you when you enter the physical body for the first time, and it is not cut again until you leave for the last time.  If this were possible, that you couldn't get back to the body, it would happen to you at night when you do leave the body.  There is no danger in this;  it is a gift given to us to learn how to use.

Jones:  Are there any dangers people should be aware of?

Gross:  When you do this consciously, there is no danger in it.  One thing I'll say, you must develop your thinking skills, and know what you want and where you want to go.  The only dangerous part of it, is if you practice it while you are taking in drugs or alcohol.  Remember back in the sixties when people were taking the drug called LSD, and they had some bad trips?  They ended up in the lower astral.  I'm trying to teach that you can have full control of what you are doing.  I would suggest if you like to drink or take drugs that you not try it.

Jones:  What else can you do when you leave the body?

Gross:  That is entirely up to you.  You must know where you are going.  You cannot just leave your body and have no destination, because you'll bounce around like a rubber ball.  Remember, you are controlling yourself with your thoughts, so if you think of California, you'll be there.  One of the most important things I like to teach people in my workshops is how to use their minds to astral project.  The best thing I can say is to learn to control yourself, so you'll go where you wanted to go.  When you first start out this might happen for awhile, but after you get full control of it, you'll realize someone else is watching you, a teacher or guide. They'll contact you then and let you know it's time for you go on, and learn.

Jones:  How would the average person know if this is for real?  Is there a way to prove it, and have you ever been asked to prove it?

Gross:  In my workshops, I teach you to astral project by having you sit in a chair and go out and turn around and look at yourself.  If you are lying in bed, you can rise up, turn around and look at yourself lying on the bed.  You'll have proof enough when you are able to look at your physical body, from outside of it.  I've been asked to prove this many times, in radio shows, and at the Whole Life Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center where I traveled astrally from St. Paul, Minnesota to Los Angeles and moved a box they had set up on the stage for me.  Once you learn how to do this you'll have proved this to yourself, and that's why I call my little group, Search and Prove.  I want you to prove this to yourself for that's the ultimate proof.  Don't take my word for it, prove it to yourself.

Jones:  Are certain kinds of people more inclined to develop this ability than others?

Gross:  I would say some learn faster than others.  I had one lady who took two years before she finally succeeded.  The most important thing is to keep a positive mind and know you can do this, because as soon as doubt comes into your mind, you won't be able to do it.  The negative is taking over then.  So it's important to keep an open, positive mind that you can do this.  It might take a little time, but it will happen.  I like to think about people going on a diet.  They get real enthused about it at first, when they've lost a couple of pounds.  All of a sudden it gets hard to lose, and they give up.  It's the same way with astral projection.  If things don't happen right away, some people give up.

Jones:  Does daily lifestyle make a difference in being able to project?

Gross:  No.  If you have a normal lifestyle, you shouldn't have any problem.

Jones:  If people have the inherent ability to do this, why is it that so few can actually do it?

Gross:  As I said earlier, they lost it when they were young.  They must learn how to bring the ability back again, because everyone can do this.  We all do it when the physical is asleep.  So you must learn to do it while you are sitting in a chair, awake, or lying on a bed.  You must learn to allow the subconscious to take over, and not let the physical mind control you.

Jones:  Some people have dreams of flying.  Where they actually out of their bodies?  How can you tell the difference between dreaming and actually being out of the body?

Gross:  Usually when people dream of flying they are out of the body, because this is the way you get around.  If you ever wake up in the middle of the night or early in the morning with a jolt, this is the astral body returning to the physical. Usually your dreams are in the beginning of your sleep cycle at night, and those dreams are nothing more than an accumulation of your thoughts during the day.  If you wake up in the morning and remember your dream real well, it is usually an astral body experience; so keep track of these clear dreams, for they are lessons for you.  It might not  make much sense at first, but later on down the road, it will all come together for you.

Jones:  If you could give one piece of advice to people who are astral projecting, what would it be?

Gross:  The main thing is to start remembering your dreams and have a pencil and paper next to your bed, or a tape recorder.  Another piece of advice I'll give you is, right before you go to sleep at night, say to yourself three times, I will remember, I will remember, I will remember.  From that point on, within about two to three weeks, you are going to start remembering everything that happens to you while the physical is sleeping.  Actually,the best piece of advice I could give, is to come to a workshop, because we really do have a lot of people who have good experiences at them.  The workshop is the best way I know  to teach anyone to do this, because I am able to spend a lot of time with the participants.  We practice different techniques from 9:00 in the morning until sometimes 11:00 at night. By the end, they have good experiences, and I find this with all my workshops.

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Jerry Gross holds workshops on astral projection in the United States and abroad. For further information on his work, you may also call  612-436-8505;  write Search and Prove, Box 311, St. Paul Park, MN  55071; or send e-mail to Rgross6162@aol.com.